Sunday, December 6, 2009

Are Community Police Officers allowed to use more 'reasonable force' than public?

When I tried to protect myself, my family and property against a gang, I was threatened with arrest if I touched them. But a Community Police Officer is allowed to use reasonable force to protect someone. Do they have special training that makes it okay for them to use this reasonable force without being arrested? When I asked the Community Police Officers for help when I was being attacked by the gang, they did nothing. Could this be because the gang was Black as were the Community Police Officers? Or were they just too scared?



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No. this is a complete fallacy and indicative of the complete confusion around the defence of "reasonable force" to an assault charge.



Police officers, PCSO's, Bouncers, security guards, etc. have no more power to use reasonable force than anybody else.



Police Officers have more powers of arrest than other citizens - and arrest is signified in practice by laying hands on a person (technically a battery).



What most people understand as an assault, is actually (letter of the law) a battery. An assault is committed when you cause somebody to fear imediate personal violence (so in a fight where both parties think they will win and do not fear the other, no assault is technically committed - just lots of battery!), but violent offences are catergorised as types of "assault".



Regardless of your reason, as soon as you lay hands on somebody where they do not consent for you to do so, you commit an assault and battery. For an assault causing injury that amounts to an aBH - or more serious injury - you may be arrested.



Defences (such as reasonable force being used in self defence) are used in court - or in actual practice by the CPS before they decide if it's worth taking to court. The offence has still been committed, but you may have a legitimate defence which means you will not be convicted in court.



"Reasonable force" is such force as is reasonable in the individual circumstance - which is why it appears that police officers have extra powers, such as using handcuffs and pepper spray, but use of these has to be justified for the circumstance.



Certain actions are not legitimate uses of "reasonable force" per se. For example, if somebody attacks you with a knife and you believe they are trying to kill you, it could be seen as a reasonable use of force if you pick up a chair and hit them with it to prevent the attack. However, if somebody knock into you and says, "watch it", picking up a chair and smashing them over the head with it would not be considered reasonable.



So to come to your particular problem, if a gang of people are trying to harm your family or damage your property, it is a reasonable use of force to push them away with such force as is neccessary to stop them from carrying out the attack. If you do hit, push, kick them, though, you are technically assaulting them and may be arrested. Then it's down to the courts to decide if the force you employed was reasonable in the circumstances.



If the system worked as it is intended to, it would be, therefore, better to tleave the fighting to the professionals (the police) when you are attacked. They, too are subject to only using reasonable force, but are trained in how to best judge and justify this in each situation.



Back in the real world, get yourself a couple of "witnesses" who are willing to swear blind that the yobs attacked you and slap the ringleader hard when he's not expecting it... Not exactly legal, but effective.



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"But a Community Police Officer is allowed to use reasonable force to protect someone"



You answered your own question.
Theyre no more than uniformed Grasses.



New Labour......... Closet Commies.
I don't think they have the power to arrest and indeed most people are wondering quite what they are for. I would rather the money that was spent on them go to regular forces.
It was the same when the little boy drowned recently, they aren't trained.



Total waste of money.
where do you live that you do not have the right to protect yourself? you should move if that is the case.
You need to report this to the Internal Affairs Division of the local police department,NOT the Community police. If Internal Affairs doen't do anything,take it to the District Attorney. If they don't do anything,take your case to the State Attorney General's office and report it to them.
When you were threatened with arrest, it was probably because the cops felt safer threatening you than dealing with the gang. I saw a pair of CPO's recently in Maidstone, threatening and abusing some grammar school pupils and obviously enjoying the feeling of power it gave them. However I don't think they have any more rights than any other member of the public. The tossers' uniform means nothing.
Glorified traffic wardens without the power to give parking tickets.



Chocolate T pot comes to mind.
PCSOs as they are called entered onto the British Scene with a Fanfare that was well-intentioned but cleverly or stupidly Flawed. I think the force should be disbanded and used in a role that is more meaningful . Many of these PCSOs look weak and are not streetwise by training or experience.Yes their physical attributes are below standard when compared to Police.I do not doubt they are good individuals ,but that alone does not qualify them for the Role they are expected to play .They are always too scared to intervene with the violent lawless. It is the law abiding that they enjoy talking tough to.I do not think a Trained Police officer would have any sort of Faith with a PCSO allocated to watching his back -when needed. The quicker The Met Realise that these people could be re-assigned to tasks they Can do- the better for all.
They are cheap labour and no, they don't have any more powers than an ordinary citizen.

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